Satish Shukla: We are excited to have with us a guest who is not only my mentor but is also the go to person for many entrepreneurs in Robotic Domain in India. He is the chairman of Addverb Technologies, Endure Air and a board member at Havells, 4th Frontier, GreenLam Laminates and Pratham. He is also the co-promoter for Asian Paints. Please welcome Mr. Jalaj Dani to our show.
Jalaj Dani: Thanks Satish, very excited to be with RawBotics today.
Satish Shukla: So, Jalaj, we would really love to hear about your journey as an investor and how do you zero in on robotics and what attracts you to this sector.
Jalaj Dani: So, in Asian Paints as we were scaling up, we realised that we needed to invest a lot more in technology in the physical space. As far as the software space was concerned Asian Paints was already doing pioneering work for more than three decades. But on the manufacturing sites, as volumes moved up and we also realised that we need to do things safely and we need to do things repeatedly at numbers which were unthinkable or volumes which are unthinkable before. We had no choice but to invest in technology. And a set of people, Sangeet and others at that time did an excellent job as far as putting all that together for Asian Paints. I must also give credit to the founders and the leadership team for allowing people to take this kind of a bold step as far as investment in automation is concerned. Over a period of time when Sangeet and his colleagues wanted to move out of Asian Paints I took on more of a mentoring role and I was just making introductions for them, sometimes serving as a sounding board more than anything else on the ideas they had and I realised that I could help them in more ways than one. So, when the first two rounds of funding happened Sangeet would have liked me to go and talk to other investors in this space but I felt that it would give them a platform which is safe and secure where they wouldn’t have to worry about pitching to investors and then aligning with the priorities of the investors because we all knew each other well. So that’s how the journey as far as investment in robotics started as far as I’m concerned. And I must say the area was very nascent. I think Asian Pains was one of the few that was actually doing work and it’s not about making the investment. It’s about realising the value of the investment and making sure that it helps the business and very few corporates in India were doing it at that time but it appeared like a space which would hold great promise and I must say whether it was Sangeet or all his other colleagues at that time and there were five of others along with Sangeet who came together to start Addverb over a period of time, did an exceptional job as far as what a startup must do which is to focus on the customer, make sure that the technology works, make sure that the financials add up and in the first few years they were profitable or near breakeven every year which itself was very unusual as far as startups was concerned and they had a set of repeat customers over a period of time. So whether it was Prateek who was helping as far as manufacturing was concerned, and others who joined over a period of time including you, Satish and Bir and others. It was very clear that this was a place which was exciting in terms of getting new talent and aligning them to the priorities of business and have tremendous execution focus and that is how the business could scale up as far as those initial years are concerned and as I look ahead for this space, I would invite others in this space, especially in the manufacturing space but also whether it is food or whether it is healthcare or other spaces, if you want to do things at scale, if you want to do things safely because today manual handling of many items is something that is not possible, sorting of parcels, in ecommerce locations or even in distribution centres for mail services is something that just can’t be done without robots and you can do it safely as far as your stakeholders especially your employees are concerned, also it brings down costs over a period of time.
Satish Shukla: That’s a very comprehensive take, so when I joined Asian Paints and I started my career, I was told that people do not leave organisations, people leave their bosses but while hearing you, I could sense something very interesting I could say that when Sangeet left his job to start Addverb, I think he chose to remain with his earlier boss and the boss also came on as an investor. I do not think there are lot of storeys like that, are you aware of any?
Jalaj Dani: I am not very sure, but it is definitely a lot of positive forces have come together and what has been created together with a set of like-minded people is absolutely magical I think like-minded people with good intentions if they come together and they put in long hours and keep customer in front of them and have a sensible cost and capital structure and treat their fellow employees well, I think wonders can be created.
Satish Shukla: Very true. Value system goes a long way in building great organisations indeed. So, you have seen the entire robotic ecosystem evolve in India and we have also seen that in last 5 to10 years India has done a pioneering work in digital public infrastructure. The way in which a common man today can open a bank account with their Aadhar within a minute or the way in which the entire vaccine distribution was done with the Cowin app. This has set an example for the world of how technology can be used in a democratic space to effectively deliver public services. Despite this we haven’t seen a lot of deep tech startups from India. Why do you think that is?
Jalaj Dani: So deep tech I must say is a word I have been hearing now for about a year or so and it makes me wonder what deep tech is all about because if we come back to the topic of why we are here today which is robots and we see the kind of work that Addverb has been able to do. As you say human robot possibilities, I think getting a lot of data using the data to improve outcomes is something robotics I think preceded as far as deep tech is concerned and AI is concerned. Today we are hearing many more people wanting to do this in other sectors. But that is definitely not something we have seen happening in other parts of the world if you ask me. So, there are pockets where this has happened. The vision of our leadership in Delhi the Geo moment that happened where data was so accessible and the young population that wanted to adopt the technology. Today we can say with pride that as far as digital access is concerned very few Indians are now left out and the ones who are left out will also be included. So, we will see many more Indians participating in this building up of information database is concerned and what is deep tech? Deep tech is nothing but bringing this data together and using it over and over again. So, when you talk of LLM and things like that or even when you talk of autonomous vehicles, we have seen all that through our journey at Addverb over all these years.
Satish Shukla: That’s a very interesting take. we all know that India needs to create a lot of jobs and for sure deep tech will play a very critical role in creating a lot of those meaningful jobs. So, I remember the first time when I walked into Asian Paints and when I walked out of campus, I got my posting at Rohtak, and I didn’t even know where Rohtak was. It was a small town in Haryana and then I called up some of my alumni in Asian Paints and asked what is going to happen to me as I studied in Mumbai.
Jalaj Dani: So, I’ll just interject you here. This was in mid 2000s. We had just set up a factory which was fairly modern in Sriperumbudur at Asian Paints but the next factory we wanted to set it up in Rohtak what you are referring to. And I remember we wanted to buy 130 acres of land and it was in Haryana and Haryana at that time was only real estate development. So, I remember actually going to the chief minister of Haryana at that time and telling him that we want to set up the world’s largest and the most advanced paint factory and I want 130 acres and he couldn’t understand what it meant. So, he kept on asking me, are you sure you are not going to set up a real estate project because that’s what. And that’s what he kept on asking and then I must say with pride team Asian Paints both manufacturing engineering supply chain and everybody else the top leadership team they created something that I remember when the factory was inaugurated you were there at that time and the tower that we had, the silos that we had, actually the leadership team of Haryana climbed all the way up to actually see what our 130 acres factory looked like but they could even see further because actually that was their constituency. So transformational work could be done was difficult for somebody coming out of an institute, but I think it was most unlikely that anybody else could also see the future at that time but, sorry to interrupt you.
Satish Shukla: So, I never knew that story of how that factory came into being and the view that you’re talking about from silo was very beautiful and I think everybody there made it a point to get the view of the entire city from that silo, it was just like a wow, if I have to sum it up. So, as I was saying when I got to know that I was going to be posted at Rohtak that I called up my alumni and I was really afraid, and I asked them what is going to happen I had studied in Mumbai for two years and now I have to go to Rohtak that gets in Haryana. I didn’t even know where it was on a map, and then I vividly remember they told me, don’t make any pre-conceived notion just go there and you will experience something magnificent so I went there and I walked into the gates of the factory, we have this this 130 acre factory and saw robots, ASRS and a huge conveyor lines and I was like oh my god, have I reached into a mega factory of the National Geographic show, it looked simply very beautiful, very elegant. The way in which different automation systems came together, and the robots were working in tandem was simply amazing.
Jalaj Dani: And it was even difficult to know that paint was being made there because everything was closed loop and there was nothing in terms of material flying around there was hardly any smell anywhere. So, it was material was coming out of these places where a truck would bring in raw materials and finish goods would just be shipped out and I think again to talk of the future of robotics I would say that the quality of people you can attract and retain when you make investment in such assets can be wonderful. And now there is a lot of talk of women participation as far as workforce is concerned but again if we go back to safety and sustainability point that I made earlier women can very easily participate in the workforce when these kinds of investments are made and some of our manufacturing sites where Addverb products are deployed now and even the factory of Addverb the first one that we set up five years ago or the one we inaugurated this year in June, the second factory the number of women on the shop floor is very high and I think that is another enabler or an equaliser that a technology can actually do in a manufacturing space which is traditionally not seem to be very hospitable as far as women are concerned. Very sorry to interject.
Satish Shukla: So very true, very true indeed. We need more women participation as you said and definitely robotics and automation make manufacturing a more equal ground for women. So, as I was saying, when I walked into the factory, I saw this amazing automation and it was a beautiful site and this inspired me to also make my move from HR into production, I was simply so inspired and excited. So, you’ve experienced this journey of scaling a business with a manufacturing base using robotics and automation. What would be some of the learnings that you would like to share with our listeners? What are some of the challenges that you faced by scaling business with automation?
Jalaj Dani: So, I think people are most important as far as scaling up our concern and that’s why there is a lot of sensitivity that is required when you deploy robotics because suddenly the environment changes if you are on a shop floor it starts looking very different and it makes people also wonder whether they will be replaced one day. So, I think a conversation around how the jobs of the future are going to be so much better and so different and how you can invest in skilling of your workforce because the very few places where robotics per say is actually taught and what is taught today three years and five years down the road, we know is something which would have completely changed. So, assuring people that you will be able to handle larger volumes you will make less mistakes there will be less accidents there will be less waste if you see the manufacturing losses that come out when you do some of these closed-door systems, closed loop systems and continuously invest in life. Also, I think the factory becomes intelligent. I think the deployment of software over a period of time goes up considerably. So today we are seeing more and more factories investing in places where they can collect data but over a period of time it is just going to happen on an online basis and some of this information and intervention does not even happen need to happen from the factory it can even happen from another remote location. So I think the whole scenario of jobs of the future are going to be looking very very different and the other thing that happens which I think we as a country and I think globally we need to also recognise is this is going to generate too much data and this data also has to be handled in a very sensitive and a responsible manner because this data can be used for many other means there can be accidents in the factory that can be created because everything happens through interventions that are digital to the information is sensitive and it can go in wrong hands whether it is a competitor or some other part of the world and all that can be very risky. So, this hunger for the infrastructure the digital highway is insatiable but the people who participate on this digital highway also need to learn how to drive responsibility and they need to be as when you buy a car there is a governor which controls the speed initially at least that is what the traditional cars used to have. I think we need to teach people how to handle the data that comes to do what to do with the data how to share it where to store it and where to retrieve it because otherwise we will not know what we have created, and the genie can be out of the land.
Satish Shukla: Very true, that is very true. So, among the many roles that you juggle, and a lot of our listeners might not be aware of it, you are also the chairman of IIM, Trichy and you have worked in many skilling initiatives. One of them being the chair for paints and coating sector skill which comes at the sector skill council of NSDC. Now you have talked about data, you have talked about jobs in the future, you have talked about factories. And, since you have this extensive experience of working in academics and scaling, how do you think we will be able to create a workforce that will be able to make the most of these technologies and also be able to work in these factories of the future?
Jalaj Dani: So, I have been saying this for the last few years that when you join an organisation, no longer can offer you lifetime employment but an organisation prepares you for lifetime employability. And if you also see the national education policy and now the ministry of education and skill has been brought together or the ministry of HRD as it was referred to earlier now as being brought together. I think learning is for life and now whether it is the digital twins that are available, and we have seen that for the last few years in traditional manufacturing setups to many other self-learning tools that are available today and collaborative technologies that have also come in. I think the emphasis has to be on people to continuously upgrade their skills and deploying their skills and again reinventing themselves every few years because as I always say you cannot drive looking at the rear view mirror, you have to look ahead and plan ahead and I think it becomes everybody’s responsibility that whether it is a podcast like this, whether it is YouTube, whether it is books, whether it is seminars, many other interventions that are available today. You have to continuously stay in touch with what is happening. Also, the ecosystems are fast evolving. So, the kind of landscape that is there today for the manufacturing industry, the service industry, if you look at how robots have evolved in healthcare, whether it is food, cleaning, delivery, lots of other things that are still nascent today but will come up over a period of time. I think people need to start preparing for those skills and either there will be providers of those skills or there will be users of those skills and we do not need to get intimidated by technology, but technology can actually be your as you say, dost. It can be your enabler which can help you to do things better and I think offer a better quality of life for everyone. It can definitely deliver a better tomorrow.
Satish Shukla: Definitely, these technologies of tomorrow are going to make the quality of life better. So, you mentioned about different robotic applications in healthcare, cleaning, delivery and you have been around the world, you are an avid traveller. So would you share with our listeners some of the top robotic applications that you have witnessed which really stand out or which were really unique.
Jalaj Dani: So there is a lot of conversation around jobs that technology cannot do, not jobs that technology can do, I want to put the shoe on the other foot and say jobs that technology cannot do and one of them we know is cooking, the culinary skills that you need to put something together. (Especially the Indian dishes). Indian dishes in different parts of India as they say every 200 kilometres the cuisine changes as far as India is concerned as you drive around but that is true everywhere around the world. The amount of money people is willing to pay for a meal at a Michelin star restaurant runs into hundreds of dollars and then if you add alcohol and other things it can even run into thousands of dollars. And even in an area like that if you go to now some of them have been to some of these restaurants in Boston area, robots are deployed for cooking to serving.
Satish Shukla: And how’s the taste?
Jalaj Dani: No and I think there is a lot of excitement when you go to an outlet like that about the sheer experience but as we know if the food doesn’t taste good the customer is not going to go again because the novelty of going to a location is once or twice but nothing beyond that. So, it better taste good and I think that’s where I was saying technology as an enabler is something we are able to see. Or I had gone a few years ago to University of California San Diego where Pradeep Ghosla is the chancellor now, but ardent passionate technology person and they have a centre for medical robotics where from a remote location you can intervene, a medical professional can intervene and undertake complex surgeries. Now just imagine an application like this where qualified doctors who want a good quality of life want to stay in certain parts of India or certain parts of the world but the care can be administered to patients in the remotest locations.
Satish Shukla: That can be really transforming.
Jalaj Dani: I am repeatedly saying that actually if the technology can be used responsibly it can be so safe and it can be done at scale that we cannot think of. I think the kind of interventions we will see in the space technology, aerospace. I do not think we can even imagine except for a few science fiction writers who have written about it. It’s very difficult to imagine what the world will be, and it is possible today to be isolated from the world because a package can be delivered through a drone through a window or through a robot at your doorstep and you do not really need to step out and that is a very scary world for me. If you do not step out what will happen to the social structure? No but then you go back to history, and you know that a human being is a social animal. So, we definitely need to learn how to engage with technology along with the society and I think that is something as I said earlier the usage of data and deployment of machines. We will have to figure out how to do these things, but this is definitely possible and there are people who are underserved and deprived for so long. Today with Deep Tech a personal tutor can take you through your education journey so much better and imagine if this can be made affordable and it can be something that can be democratised so many people who have been left out in participating in this world of abundance as we call today will be able to benefit and make the most.
Satish Shukla: At the end of the day technology must benefit humanity at large that is for very sure.
Jalaj Dani: I have always said that technology is here to serve a customer in a business and in the broader sense if you lose that focus and that goes back to what you asked earlier. I would tell all the business leaders that if it does not help you to bring down your costs it does not help you to bring down your product introduction times it doesn’t help you to improve your inventory turns or it helps you to hire better talent and offer a better quality of life for your people. Its no use in investing in technology, but I am more than convinced that technology can help deliver that.
Satish Shukla: That’s a really amazing insight on how technology should be viewed by businesses. So, you work extensively in capacity building for sports you have a passion for sports, and you work along with Puellela Gopichand and Abhinav Bindra through ELMS which is excellence in leadership and management of sports. So, I would like to ask you what are some of the unique use cases that you have seen which integrates sports and robotics. (So just like we talked about cooking I think) ,by the way I am interjecting you, so cooking robot has a very tremendous use case all the muscles across the country can use that robot.
Jalaj Dani: So sports I think is another area and if you see the Olympic movement over centuries it is all about excellence as far as a human being is concerned.
Satish Shukla: That’s Very cool.
Jalaj Dani: And we are all glued to our TV screens or phones now on how across various sports through human commitment, energy, sacrifices, athletes, break records they are faster they are lifting something they are stronger, or they are achieving something in many of the other sports by combining various skills. But even in an area like sports it is possible to deploy technology and as they said COVID has changed the world in ways which we cannot even imagine. We all lived through COVID and unfortunately, we did lose some people, but we know that the world has changed, and the world will never be the same.
Satish Shukla: It will always be precovid and post covid.
Jalaj Dani: Correct. And the example that comes to my mind is my son is a professional table tennis player now and during COVID when there was a lockdown and overnight nobody could move even leave their house forget leaving the building, we fortunately had a robot which we could assemble, and he could train for number of hours every day.
Satish Shukla: So, you assembled the robot on your own.
Jalaj Dani: It was possible to bring it together it was not very difficult to do that, and this again comes back to technology. I think as they say technology has made it easier and easier for people to put things together.
Satish Shukla: So, I am just interjecting here but in future we could have an IKEA like store where you could go buy your own robot bring home and assemble it and have for different use cases.
Jalaj Dani: I personally think the cleaning robots today are already doing it but they are still plug and play as far as that application is concerned but I think it is the responsibility of the robotic industry also. I think as they say the ease of doing things is a responsibility of all of us and especially for somebody like Addverb who is a pioneer not only in robots in India but in so many other markets as we deploy our technologies around the world that if you can make it easy for people and there is an element of fear, there is an element of ignorance, there is an element of will I fail when I do these things. So, if you can make technology which is proof from making any of these mistakes as you like to say make it so easy to use the technology that everybody can deploy it, and everybody can use it. Then the use cases will be in billions and that was possible and usually when you play table tennis the ball falls off the table and then you have to go and pick up the ball. Here there is a net on one side so the ball gets collected and it goes back, there is an arrangement by which you can even select what speed you want the ball you want what kind of spin so it is not monotonous because lot of times people believe that robots are monotonous but again if we look at the intelligence that is embedded and especially in the kind of offerings we have with Addverb it is not only software it is not only hardware but it is the interplay of both to actually serve the requirement and the same thing was possible where you could improve your game you could design what kind of competitor you are going to have across from you and accordingly play with the robot and this is something that I have seen it with my own eyes and we have that deployed around us we now have a table tennis league also UTT where there was a demonstration of this technology few months ago at Balewadi Pune.
Satish Shukla: Yeah, I saw that on Instagram.
Jalaj Dani: And the other example and there are I am sure many more examples and my knowledge is also I am sure limited as far as this space is concerned if you go to Bundesliga and if you look at some of the top teams in Bundesliga they have to pay a lot of money to get talent and talent comes by investing in good people and making sure that they do that repeatedly over and over again but that can be a very expensive proposition so there are now innovative clubs that have come together who take people who are talented but probably not as talented or you may call them in that sense raw talent and then through deployment of robotics through deployment of drones through deployment of the whole technology that puts all this together through sport science they are able to train and develop talent in a shorter time so hopefully the injuries will be less and the players will be ready to be playing the sport in this case football much faster and their value actually goes up and clubs can realise and the players can realise much more money much faster and also injury prevention will be there so they will not have to spend as much on medical expenses which again helps the whole ecosystem of sports but also produce better players across the world, again it won’t be a domain of a particular catchment area where champions can come they can come from all over the world from all over India and I think this again will be a great platform for young people to use technology and create a greater good over a period of time
Satish Shukla: that’s very interesting because such technologies can really democratise access to sports, training, and other infrastructure and as you correctly said will break players from very different domains and catchment areas. So, what kind of further opportunities do you see in this robotics space going forward from a point of view of establishing a business or investing in the business.
Jalaj Dani: As I said I think robots is only the beginning of the deep tech AI revolution we have seen that now in drones also – drones for delivery ,drones for defence and not much is known about it because it should be kept confidential for national security reasons but also if you see drones as far as agriculture and other applications are concerned I think we have only scratched the surface the amount of data that will be available in an ecosystem like India we need to think as a country how we will process all this information we also need a lot more investment as far as the whole value chain of robotics is concerned. I remember when we set up our first factory at Addverb within two years in spite of covid we needed a new factory thereafter and the second factory is significantly larger than the first factory.
Satish Shukla: On of the world’s largest in mobile robotics.
Jalaj Dani: correct and I remember when the digital groundbreaking ceremony was being undertaken not very far because we finished the whole factory in our record time of 12 months so six months before now because we inaugurated the factory in June so last year when Prime Minister, Modi did the inauguration the digital inauguration along with Yogi Adityanaji the chief minister of UP he only asked one question what will you really make in this factory and when I went to great length to explain to him what we will make he was still not convinced he kept on asking will you really make everything in India and I think that’s the responsibility that’s the potential that is there because if you have to make so much for so many different diverse applications and we talked of social sector not only the business sector I think manufacturing parts standardisation of parts making sure volumes are available so we can make things at scale and then most importantly having skilled people who can not only work on the shop floor but go to the customer end and help deploy this technology fast we will in the end if we do things right first time it will build the confidence as far as customers is concerned and repeat business will come it will become a virtuous cycle that this technology works this technology is full proof and that’s I think what we need more than anything else
Satish Shukla: But a lot of these robotic application will also require significant amount of computing power where are we with respect to that specially in India.
Jalaj Dani: So, we may have missed many of the revolutions as far as manufacturing technology and agriculture is concerned but today, we are well poised as far as the country is concerned to make the most as far as computing is concerned. If we can make good investment as far as the infrastructure is concerned and have the talent which anyway is available and you are seeing more and more talent from other parts of the world wanting to come back or talent from India not wanting to go abroad at all anymore, I think this is a responsibility and this is an area that needs immediate attention, even if you look at areas like railways, we have the best network around the country if you look at the rivers if you look at the sea ports the amount of material that can be moved as far as India is concerned I think we have only scratched the surface and all this will need considerable investment even in the computing power things can be done on the cloud but in the end it still needs to be done somewhere and I think energy costs with the kind of work that is happening in green energy will also be competitive as far as India is concerned otherwise traditionally we have always felt that India is you know behind many other countries so combination of all that I think we should be as a country thinking very big and thinking very bold in making those investments
Satish Shukla: As a nation we need to be bold to make it one decade what others have achieved in centuries. So among the many hats that you don as an investor as a board member as a person contributing to sports, you are also associated with Project Mumbai and Kapadwanj Kelavani Mandal where you are helping a rural school in Gujarat I just this is a very personal question that I would like to ask we are all hearing about the famous 70 hour work week debate I would like to know how do you manage all this in a week so do you also work for 70 hours a week?
Jalaj Dani: I think it’s a state of mind and I genuinely believe it if you enjoy what you are doing you are not going to clock how many hours you spend if you go to your place of work and you feel energised you feel inspired you feel you can contribute you feel you can make a difference then you feel like going back to the same place, I think it’s as simple as that and as you said it a little earlier I have always believed that that an employee joins an organisation but leaves a boss. I think it’s the responsibility of the boss to inspire their team. If they are achieving as they say be had big hairy audacious goals, if they are making an impact to humanity, if they are making a difference in their families with the wealth that they are able to create out of all this, I think people are not going to clock, but if they come to places that are not inspiring bosses, that are not able to lead them then people will start looking at their clock. I have believed at least for the last 20 years that there has to be flexibility in working hours, work from home changed quite a bit with covid and maybe it went too much on the other side so it’s getting over corrected but if you have an employee who is responsible who understands what their deliverables are, they will deliver wherever they are based but we know that we inspire each other in the same place we innovate together we create wonderful things by meeting customers to suppliers to everybody else so we definitely need to live in a physical world but we also need to appreciate that there is a digital world out there which meets the requirement and the aspirations of many people so I think and I can speak for myself few years ago almost a decade I said I want to spend time in the social sector and I would take out one day a month and say that I will give back my time for a period of time I said I will give back one day a week but sometimes the storeys that I hear in the social sector are even more inspiring than what you see in a corporate world one rupee that you spend in Mumbai you talked of project Mumbai which is a organised, it’s a start up like-minded people have come together in the last five years where we say Mumbai Kiliya Kuchbi Kariga the number of volunteers that come together today to make a difference to Bombay is inspiring you think those people are actually counting whether they are spending 40 hours at work or 70 hours at work or they are spending enough time on themselves, their health, or their family or their friends or pursuing their passions versus saying I want to go back and give to city of Mumbai because city of Mumbai needs people like us with our skills and passion or Kapadwaj kelavani Mandal example that you spoke of your 7000 children in rural Gujarat or we have 500 kids in a sports school where they are training for 10 different Olympic sports all over Gujarat or we have 1200 midwives who even today use a push button phone, they don’t have a smartphone because they cannot afford a smartphone and they are fifth standard sixth standard is all they have studied but they are going out there as midwives and helping deliver babies safely and keeping sure that the mothers are safe I think this kind of as I said earlier inspiration comes in multiple ways so you got to go and look for what inspires you some people are very happy working why 70, 120 hours at work and that’s that’s good if that’s what they enjoy doing and then there are people who are in the social sector also working very hard with human resources and I said the one rupee in Mumbai versus one rupee in Kaparaj because so much further and the gratitude you see in the eyes there for what you are able to do there because they have been underserved for so long as a society and that again is a failure of the privileged few like us who need to take time out all money to make sure that they also get a better life. so, I think it’s a choice that you make as long as you enjoy what you are doing and I think as I tell my 24- and 23-year-old or they don’t listen to me much but
Satish Shukla: that’s the problem in a lot of households
Jalaj Dani: but they did listen to me when they were young that I think do what you are passionate about and do it really well as long as you do those two things and again I’m saying do what you are passionate about and do it really well I think you will be a happy person and you will contribute and other thing we told our children then which if you are saying that’s the challenge today with all the kids in their twenties some very old but is choices have consequences so if you decide to do something then there will be a consequence and you have to live with that consequence I think that’s the mature or an adult way of behaving so if you want to work for 40 hours there is a certain economic value you will create for your employer or for your startup or for the society if you work 70 years you will create a different economic value hopefully and if you work 100 hours you will create it and that economic value is not to be measured as money but as they say it’s triple bottom line you will make a difference somewhere you’ll make a difference for yourself or the community you live or the larger society and I think you have to align your priorities with that and I think that’s the choice you have to make and if that’s the choice you make when you put your head on the pillow at night you sleep well because you you have lived that day well and you’ve contributed for the better tomorrow and I think that’s what it is all about
Jalaj Dani: that’s what I would encourage people to look at and not count these things I think it’s just a number
Satish Shukla: I think you really laid it down very well and settled this once and for all with 4 Ps of work life integration, just like we have 4 Ps of marketing. 4 Ps of work life integration would be purpose, passion, perfection, and priority and if these four things are sorted, I don’t think any of these matters so thank you thank you very much Jalaj for giving your time it was really an enlightening session for all of our listeners, thank you again.
Jalaj Dani: Thank you, Satish and best wishes, to team Adverb.
Satish Shukla: Thankyou