Satish Shukla –  

Today we have with us Ashish Kshetry, CIO and Vice President at Asian Paints and a person with extensive experience in supply chain, IT and digital transformations. He plays a pivotal role in crafting and executing the digital strategy for Asian paints to ensure that AP remains ahead of the curve. His insights into the intersection of IT and business strategy have positioned him as a thought leader in the ever-evolving landscape of consumables. Welcome to our podcast.  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Thanks, Aashish, for having me over today.  

Satish Shukla –  

So as someone who has managed supply chain and IT in a manufacturing-led business, can you tell us particularly a memorable or unexpected experience where robotics and automation had a significant impact on your role or the operation of a factory or a manufacturing unit?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

So, as you introduced me, you are mentioning the word, many years of experience. So, I think I have many memorable and unexpected experiences if I may use that expression. And you also mentioned automation and robotics, right? (Yes). So, I’d like to just start with that, over these years, I have experienced automation in the conventional sense where, we just digitized operations, say, on the shop floor, moved from manual operations to a computer-based system. And I’m just taking the audience back many years. And that’s the change which I experienced many years back. And it was unexpected. We planned for a lot of things, but when you actually implement something, the impact it has on people and the way they interface with just a mouse or a keyboard was very unexpected for me, right? To see people who are used to doing things manually and just typing things on the computer itself was really unexpected. (So usually people are resistant to technology at the first time). Yeah. So yeah. So, actually learning for me very early in my career. And I must say that the real wave started when you got into a lot of robotics. And that’s the change that I really saw, which was really memorable. And I saw it from both angles. From the IT lens, when we really started looking at implementing robotics on the shop floor.  

And I was really fortunate enough to work on the other end of it, its supply chain, experiencing the real benefits of what robotics could really bring about. A really memorable experience there was when we really changed the generation of our manufacturing plants from manual operations. And when I mean operations, I mean processes and controls, while digitisation will probably get you only efficiencies in operation, robotics really changed the game. (okay). In terms of real big disruptions, the way you managed and controlled operations on the shop floor really had a significant impact.  

Satish Shukla –  

Okay. So, when you say impact, you were able to increase productivity efficiency. How was this impact visualised?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

I would say the one or two things this really created. One is, obviously what robotics gets you is that it gets you robots, so it reduces the number of people on the shop floor running the operations. It reduces the error rates and the wastages that can happen. (okay) The other thing is they learn much faster. So, the scaling up of operations and reaching capacity utilisations is much faster in an automated plant. And I think that is a big difference which I saw, which was actually quite unexpected in that sense in the way the plants really reached their capacity utilizations.  

Satish Shukla –  

Very well said that robotics actually helps you to scale faster in the business and gives you an edge that way. So, you mentioned that early in your career, you saw people being very afraid of working with even basic digitisation process on the shop floor and using keyboards, etc. Did you see those kinds of challenges when you first brought robots on the shop floor or when people first had to work with robots on the shop floor? So, I would basically rephrase this. What would it need to have humans and robots working together on the shop floor?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

So, I think it’s, if I may use the expression poetry in motion, right, when, when really the human and robots work together. (So, the symphony of robots and humans). Yeah, but that’s in a lighter way. But I would say, I mean, I recently saw something really exciting, where I’ve seen the application of robotics really change the way quality assurance is done. Now, this is not a very widely, used example or place where robotics you would expect to influence. And there it’s not only about the physical operation that the robot is doing, but it is bringing in more than one senses of a human being in the operation. (okay). So, it’s about, getting motions, taking samples, looking at vision and, really coming out with results, using the intelligence and the past history to detect and influence, product quality at the end of the day. I think that was very significant, while we do a lot of testing in an automated fashion, taking it end to end was a real example and, where it was able to sense defects, take pictures of the end product from various angles (wow) and be able to detect, you know, defect at the end of it. So that’s what I really meant by poetry in motion, that you had different senses, work and a great example of how robotics can influence a field of just quality assurance and not just pure manufacturing.  

Satish Shukla –  

This is a very unique example where truly the robotics system is using different senses to come and execute the quality assurance process. So, if I understand right since you mentioned that it was taking photographs and also taking decision based on the final output, this will mean that robotic systems would usually need a lot of data and do analyze a lot of data. How do you manage integrations of such systems, or had you experienced any challenges in that?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah. So, a very interesting question you asked because another aspect about robots is when they work on the shop floor, let me, let me say they are not tolerant. (Okay). Yeah. So, when a human is operating a machine, they will be tolerant to some problem, right? (Yeah.) And maybe be patient with it and try and solve it themselves. (Which a lot of people would find a problem). Yeah. So, it’s, yeah, no, I would say they are patient, and they like to solve the problem, right? But in that sense, robots will be intolerant, they will work with only, the design or the, let’s say the raw material, which is meeting specifications. So, they will not be tolerant to any defect that comes in.  

So, one of the things which we found which was quite unexpected was when we put in the robots in our factory shop floors, we realized that the product quality of the incoming material has to be extremely stringent, gone away were the tolerances that, they could operate. And we really had to work on that, which meant working with our suppliers, (okay) trying to ensure that they have better quality processes, maybe they adopt automation and ensure that the quality of the input that comes to us is far greater. While that, benefits us in many ways, but the real driver came because of, putting in robots, So, I would say that was an ancillary advantage we got by just implementing robots and it was quite, in my mind quite unexpected as well. 

Satish Shukla –  

So, you not only implemented automation systems in robots for your manufacturing, but also uplifted the entire vendor system as well.  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah, that’s right, because you need better delivery systems, and when we implemented, we implemented not just in our processing operations, but in our warehousing operations, in the delivery of material from our factory to our warehouses as well. How do you take heavy loads and put them onto trucks without the human having to, really lift those heavy loads. So, I think, ensuring that the trucks have good quality so that they can take in, automated robots, maybe, filling up the trucks, right? So various challenges just to ensure that you need to make the ecosystem more be flexible to manage, some of these elements.  

Satish Shukla –  

Yeah. So, this is a very good example that you mentioned, how robotics and automation have created a complete digital ecosystem and this creates an edge for manufacturing. So, do you think robotics will play a very important role if India has to emerge? We are hearing all the China plus one story and becoming the manufacturing capital of the world. So, do you think that robotics will play a very critical role and all companies should probably follow this route of creating a complete digitised ecosystem?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah. So, I would say robotics is one element. (One element). Yeah, I said. I think there are various elements and as you rightly said, China plus one story for India being the economy that can really, change the game in terms of its human capital and get in, resources for enabling that. I think the element of humans working with robots cannot be better explained when we look at things like chatbots or elements where you want to, have many steps in a manual process being done, by robots or by, I would say, chat bots, right? Yeah.  

Satish Shukla –  

So, since you mentioned chatbots and that’s very interesting, we are seeing a lot of big companies using deep tech in many domains. So, if you could just build on that chatbot and what are different applications, especially in areas like customer experience sector, because we have touched on robotics and manufacturing and how do these applications come in other segments as well?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah. So, I think the areas which we look at when we start looking at moving, one level above also from robotics is, what is known as artificial intelligence and what we term as algorithmic based decision making. So, how better can you use algorithms in decision making, the human mind will have a certain potential to take those decisions, but having the automated system will make it far more conducive. So, some examples that we do a lot is, you know, trying to build what we are calling as a recommendation engine, right? So, it could be recommendations for end consumers to select products. It could be recommendations based on past history and patterns on, selection of a product while they are, using a digital journey in our retail stores, things like that. So, you are looking at more, algorithms driving decision making and that’s a real emerging field where a lot of, organisations like us would be investing their, time, energy, resources. It all, it not only makes the decision making faster, but it also makes it more individualistic where the person gets the feeling that it is something for me. For me, I won’t date that. Yeah, that’s right. So, it’s more data driven based on past history. (Past history.)  

Satish Shukla –  

And there is also something called an RPA, what is process automation. So, for our listeners, if you could touch upon how is RPA different from a robotic automation where physical robots are involved?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah. So, the whole sense of robots working with humans, I think is best explained in a RPA scenario, where we look at robotic process automation as various steps in a process.  At some point in time, you do find the limitation of something to be seen by human. But let’s limit it only to that portion and let everything else be done by a robotic process. So, it could be as simple as things like approving an invoice, you know, where you go and, optically read an invoice, let the computer do the check, but at the end of it, somebody is still signing off before it is paid. So, you have taken away 90% of the job, but retain 5% at the end of it. And it could also be used for places where you want to hand off things between one human to the other. 

And any organization, you’ll have many such processes, right? And where you would do a process by human, have a robot in between and then hand it off again to a human. So, I think those are examples and we use it a lot in processes and accounting, finance, legal and with the latest technologies around large language models, I think that has only got better now.  

Satish Shukla –  

Yeah, LLMS will completely take this to the next level. And this is a very good example of how there’s a lot of fear usually people that are going to take away jobs, etc. But what you mentioned that 90% of the thing will be probably done by robo’s, but there will still be a human intervention required. This is a very good example of how productivity can increase multi-fold. Before we close this session, we’ll just touch on few method truths. Since we have somebody who has experienced both IT and supply chain extensively. So, the first is the IT department at a manufacturing plant, are like the take wizard of the factory. Who can fix any problem with their people, myth or truth?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

I think it’s a myth. Okay. Yeah, rather than fix the problem, they’re responsible for a lot of problems.  

Satish Shukla –  

Very interesting, So, in a manufacturing setting, usually IT professionals and engineers, when the machines are running and when robots are running, is it true that they engage in epic nerve gun battles because they don’t have anything to do?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

I think it’s true. But at the same time, I think they’re looking for the next challenge. So, maybe the nerve-gun battles are in that space, (okay) looking at the next challenge, but they do chill out at those times.  

Satish Shukla –  

So, then this would be manufacturing glamourous, very glamourous. (Yes, absolutely). So, do robots also have personalities that reflect the type of the work they perform?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

I think that’s a myth. (okay) I mean, that’s one difference from humans, I would say.  

Satish Shukla –  

But do you think we will reach there in some time?  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Hope not. (Hope not). So, we still want the humour to remain with you. Absolutely.  

Satish Shukla –  

So, the last question. In some manufacturing setups, is it true that some engineers and IT professionals have a secret handshake that they only understand? 

Aashish Kshetry –  

Yeah, I think that’s very true. In a lot of cases, there is so much mumbo jumbo put on to something that you have to explain to somebody higher up that I think it gets lost in translation. So, I think there is a handshake between the IT and the manufacturing folks explaining any issue that comes up.  

Satish Shukla –  

Thank you for letting the world do this. So, thank you, Ashish. Thank you for your time. And listeners would definitely enjoy and learn a lot from our conversation.  

Aashish Kshetry –  

Thanks, Satish, for having me over.  

Satish Shukla –  

Thank you.